|
Post by Eca on Jun 14, 2011 17:44:36 GMT 10
Two questions relating to a pass back:
1. Fullback, using his foot, passes the ball back to his keeper, however, prior to the ball reaching the keeper, the ball takes an accidental deflection from an opposition player and still goes to the keeper. Can the keeper, inside his goal area, touch the ball with his hands without giving away an indirect freekick?
2. Fullback, using his foot, passes the ball back to his keeper, however, prior to the ball reaching the keeper, the ball takes a deflection from an opposition play, who stuck his foot out trying to intercept the ball, and still goes to the keeper. Can the keeper, inside his goal area, touch the ball with his hands without giving away an indirect freekick?
|
|
|
Post by fairplay on Jun 16, 2011 13:17:59 GMT 10
Hi Eca. Very good questions. Here is what I would do given that it was a definite intentional pass by the fullback to the keeper.
Since the scenarios you specified are not explicit in LOTG or guidelines (i think) I would apply the same principal as applicable in an offside situation with the defenders and attackers roles reversed.
1. No. The spirit of the law can also be applied here. If I have enough time i would shout to the keeper "don't use your hands".
2. Depends on how 'solid' the contact was by the opposition and if it can be looked at as more of a miss-kick rather than a deflection. From your description my answer is the same as question 1.
|
|
|
Post by Eca on Jun 18, 2011 16:44:17 GMT 10
Hi Fairplay, before I posted these two questions, I checked the LOTG and guidelines and could not find the answers.
I'm still not sure what is the right answer.
With No. 2, the attacker that gets a deliberate deflection (no matter how slight), if the ball deflects away from the keeper and into the goal he would claim it as his goal (and not an own goal). So therefore I would say yes to No. 2 - the goal keeper can touch the ball with his hands.
With question No. 1, if the accidental deflection goes into the goals, I would call it an own goal. However, if the accidental deflection goes out over the goal line it is a goal kick. So therefore, as the attacking team was the last to touch the ball it should be okay for the keeper to pick up the ball with his hands. Not 100% sure if this is correct. Maybe someone from the education committee can answer this.
I did have scenario No 2 happen to me last week.
|
|
|
Post by fairplay on Jun 19, 2011 14:40:46 GMT 10
Eca, As there are no direct laws or guidelines it all comes down to interpretations. Although your analogy of "who claims the goal" on a deflection is a good one I'd say it is less applicable compared to an offside situation which I used as an analogy. As far as LOTG is concerned it does not matter who scores the goal so anyone can claim it and it is still a goal. LOTG doesn't care bout stats. But in an offside situation the LOTG guide line explicit say:
“gaining an advantage by being in that position” means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a goalpost or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position
(emphasis mine)
This is a situation very similar to your question. However the definition of 'rebound' is not clear and that is why my answer to question 2 started with "depends on".
I'm also interested in the opinion of the education committee members but i wont be surprised if they come up with different opining.
I know of many situations where the LOTG does not cover and the referees should use their own interpretation and/or law 18. For instance, if the ball is half in and half out of the 18 penalty area and keeper touches it on the part which is inside the PA. Is it a handling offence? How about if the keeper touches it on the part that is outside the PA?
|
|
|
Post by fairplay on Jul 5, 2011 11:43:37 GMT 10
Interesting similar "pass back" scenario happened in my game last weekend. A defender in the D on the edge of the box pases the ball back deliberately to the keeper standing in the middle of the goal. Another defender standing on the side of the goal runs in and intercepts the ball with a controlled 'one touch' just in front of the keeper and away from her. The keeper (now behind the second defender) shouts "keeper's". The second defender moves away allowing the keeper to come and pick it up.
What would you do?
|
|
|
Post by Johnny on Jul 19, 2011 15:52:34 GMT 10
Eca Its often useful to have a quick re-read of the law which states: 'An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences.......touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to him by a team-mate...'
Personally I think that it is better to give the benefit of the doubt to the defenders in this scenario. 'Deliberately kicked to him (keeper)' hardly applies if the kick was so near to another player that it either hit the other player or the other player was able to partially intercept.
Also just consider: 1) You give the IFK and a goal is scored. Players are angry and you have created a difficult situation for yourself. 2) Refuse the IFK with a quick 'on the run' explanation - 'not a deliberate pass to the goalkeeper' and everybody is probably happy.
|
|
|
Post by Eca on Jul 19, 2011 22:07:36 GMT 10
Hi Johnny,
It was 100% pass back to the keeper. The defender didn't look up too well and did not see the attacker before he passed back. In a few cases I've experienced, if the ball goes back to the keeper accidently from a team mate, the goal keeper plays safe and will not pick up the ball and will kick it clear.
In the case I described above (point 2), where the defender deliberately passes the ball back and the attacker gets his foot to the ball deliberately, it appeared the goal keeper was going to let the ball go out over the goal line for a goal kick. However, just before it went out, the keeper picked the ball up. The attacking team did call out for a free kick because of the pass back. In a split second on the run I called out confidently: "no, attacking team last to play at the ball". Everyone agreed and it was play on without any dispute.
Later, after the game, I checked the law book to see if this was the correct decision. After reading the law I wasn't 100% sure, hence I posted the questions for some further discussion. Got some great feedback from Fairplay. Was also hoping to get some feedback from the education committee (none so far).
I guess in the end the call I made was correct, put down to a confident call and some commonsense.
|
|
|
Post by Johnny on Jul 21, 2011 12:29:18 GMT 10
Eca
If you as referee are convinced that in your opinion the ball has been 'deliberately kicked to the keeper by a team-mate', IFK is the correct decision.
I guess that this is one of those, 'you had to be there to see it' scenarios.
Sounds like you are on the right track Eca - keep up the good work.
|
|
|
Post by JD on Jul 21, 2011 13:10:05 GMT 10
I have done some thinking about Eca's #2 question.
I believe that if another player gets involved in the play i.e. the attacker gets their foot in, then you stop worrying about the law of whether or not it has been deliberately kicked to the GK.
The play that was a deliberate kick has now been completed. Time to move on to the next play.
The result of the kick was that the GK did not pick it up with their hands, because, the result was someone else got their foot in the way.
When you read the line that Johnny quoted, you wish there was a word included in that line saying 'directly' but there does not appear to be such word.
My thought process was how long do I wait? If a deliberate kick happens to the GK, but then another attacker gets it, play then goes up field from a defender, then comes back and then finally the GK saves it...will this still count as the GK handling the ball "after" it has been deliberately kicked to them?
In theory yes. So that is why I thought about how long the deliberate kick should be considered. That is why I believe you stop worrying about the law as soon as you know the result, which is if someone else gets in there first, the play is over.
There is then the point that a caution is possible, if there is a deliberate trick such as say, a second defender coming along and touching the ball just so this might have allowed the GK to pick it up. The infringement in this case would be the deliberate trick rather than the GK handling the ball though.
|
|