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Post by fairplay on Aug 11, 2010 12:30:38 GMT 10
(Stolen from another forum) A keeper has his outstretched hand on the ball in his own GA after a dive to save a goal as the ball was rolling in. Can a striker kick/push the ball (not in a dangerous manner) from under the keeper's hand?
Please justify your answer using quotes from the LOTG.
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Post by fairplay on Aug 13, 2010 14:38:27 GMT 10
Does anyone want to have ago at this?
I asked for quotes from the LOTG since i think it does not cover this situation as clearly as I think it should.
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refsmum
50 Posts + Member
Posts: 66
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Post by refsmum on Aug 13, 2010 15:22:18 GMT 10
Well fairplay having a son who has played keeper for years I have seen this happen to him and a goal awarded on a couple of occasions.
I have also seen a goal disallowed in the same scenario and the explanation from the referee was if the keeper has downward pressure on the ball then he is deemed to have the ball under control.
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Post by Eca on Aug 13, 2010 16:51:15 GMT 10
In your situation you described Fairplay, no, because...(see first bullet point)
Taken from page 112 of Laws of the Game 2010/2011:
A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands for more than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball: • while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) • while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand • while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air When a goalkeeper has gained possession of the ball with his hands, he cannot be challenged by an opponent.
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Post by fairplay on Aug 13, 2010 22:25:22 GMT 10
refsmum,
I can see how each of those refs has interpreted the law a different way and hence decided to allow or disallow playing on.
Eca,
Thanks for the input. The very last sentence says the keeper can not be challenged when in possession. You are assuming possession and control mean the same. I would agree with you but there are those who would say if they mean the same why would IFAB use different words just a few sentences apart.
In the same section but further on there are further definitions of "control" and "possession".
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Post by rhythmlynx on Aug 17, 2010 13:05:09 GMT 10
I would say that when goalkeepers bounce the ball or gently throw it in the air or release it to kick the ball they don't technically have possession of the ball in their hands but the ball is still considered under their control and they have up to six seconds (inclusive) to surrender that hand control of the ball to avoid infringement of the LOTG. Of course the goalkeeper may choose to release the ball on the ground and thereafter control the ball with his/her feet but is not permitted to directly regain possession with their hands
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Post by fairplay on Aug 18, 2010 16:02:08 GMT 10
rhythmlynx, That is a fair assumption which means while the keeper is bouncing the ball in the process of releasing it he/she can be challenged, i.e a shoulder charge which will be a fair one on a field player. My guess is that most rferees would not allow that shoulder charge. Nevertheless i think this is another case of poor wording leading to confusion. In explaining the 6 second rule "control" is partially defined (there is more definition of it in the double touch rule further down). Then the no challenge on keeper in "possession" is explained within the same rule but "possession" is not defined. However there is a bit of definition of "possession" in the double touch rule . Clearly more clarity is needed here
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Post by rhythmlynx on Aug 18, 2010 23:14:04 GMT 10
fairplay; No, the goalkeeper is not to be challenged whilst in control of the ball by use of his/her hands. An opponent may challenge the goalkeeper if the ball is on the ground and he/she has possession of the ball by means of their feet. You are correct that the wording of the LOTG in some sections are badly worded and this has been pointed out on a number of occasions by other forum contributors. If the goalkeeper is shoulder charged by an opponent whilst bouncing the ball and during the clearing/releasing process (within the six second rule) then the referee should award a direct free kick to the goalkeeper (defending team) however if the opponent only hindered or obstructed the goalkeeper without physical contact during the release process then it is an indirect free kick to the defending team. I hope that clears the understanding of this topic.
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